Last night was the third and final debate. On the one hand, I wish they were going to debate some more. On the other, I've really had enough. For this debate, I did a running commentary with my friend Chuck. Chuck was nice enough to edit the commentary and intersperse quotes from the participants where appropriate. Here it is:
Chuck 8:58:59 PM I've switched over to C-SPAN... looks like CSPAN2 is running something else Brian 8:59:08 PM I've got NBC here. Chuck 8:59:32 PM OK lets get on the same feed Brian 8:59:42 PM Hang on. Chuck 9:00:14 PM OK I'm on NBC Brian 9:00:15 PM Now I have C-SPAN Brian 9:00:17 PM LOL Chuck 9:00:20 PM STAY THERE Brian 9:00:24 PM Courtesy of my dumb dog. Brian 9:00:31 PM She sat on the remote. Brian 9:00:41 PM I'm staying. Brian 9:00:45 PM 1 minute warning Brian 9:01:08 PM I think the debate is biased. More blue than red on the stage. Brian 9:01:14 PM It's subliminal. Chuck 9:01:20 PM back on C-SPAN Brian 9:01:24 PM OK Chuck 9:01:28 PM Don't let your dog touch the remote Chuck 9:01:30 PM :-) SCHIEFFER: ...Good evening ladies and gentlemen, I'm Bob Schieffer....
Chuck 9:01:40 PM Good evening Bob. Brian 9:01:40 PM I've moved it out of her reach. Brian 9:01:58 PM Don't think I like the moderator already. Brian 9:02:02 PM Dunno why. Brian 9:02:17 PM Yeah, right. Chuck 9:02:34 PM This is all very standard from the other debates... same speech Brian 9:02:39 PM Yup. Brian 9:03:13 PM What if one of them farts. Chuck 9:03:16 PM Bush switched to red tie Chuck 9:03:22 PM instead of blue Brian 9:03:22 PM Yeah. Noticed that. Brian 9:03:34 PM They look like they have the same tie. Chuck 9:03:36 PM practically identical suits Brian 9:03:46 PM How will we tell them apart? Chuck 9:04:05 PM Bush is trying hard to look personable. Q: Senator... will our children and grandchildren ever live in a world as safe and secure as the world in which we grew up?
Chuck 9:04:24 PM Kerry tips hat Brian 9:04:31 PM Yeah. KERRY: I believe that this president, regrettably, rushed us into a war, made decisions about foreign policy, pushed alliances away. And, as a result, America is now bearing this extraordinary burden where we are not as safe as we ought to be.
The measurement is not: Are we safer? The measurement is: Are we as safe as we ought to be?... Chuck 9:04:51 PM Kerry comes out swinging... no surprise there. Brian 9:05:03 PM Yup. But not saying anything new. Chuck 9:05:20 PM there goes George... blinkblinkblink Brian 9:05:33 PM Check his ears. Any receiver? Chuck 9:06:03 PM Kerry is repeating himself from earlier debates. No surprise there. Trying to stay on message. Invoking Reagan Brian 9:06:29 PM There's the trademark smirk. BUSH: ...I have got a comprehensive strategy to not only chase down the Al Qaida, wherever it exists -- and we're making progress; three-quarters of Al Qaida leaders have been brought to justice...
Brian 9:06:42 PM There's the 75% leadership lie again. Chuck 9:06:54 PM Bush is trying very hard to behave. Brian 9:06:59 PM Fact checker disproved that one last time. BUSH: ...My opponent just this weekend talked about how terrorism could be reduced to a nuisance...
Chuck 9:07:14 PM There's the nuisance line, we saw that coming Brian 9:07:34 PM Invokes Afghan elections. Neglects the fact that there are election fraud irregularities in Afghan. Brian 9:08:18 PM Lying again. Brian 9:08:34 PM Trouble is, most people won't check the facts. Brian 9:08:35 PM Grrrrr. Chuck 9:08:38 PM true enough KERRY: ...Six months after he said Osama bin Laden must be caught dead or alive, this president was asked, Where is Osama bin Laden? He said, I don't know. I don't really think about him very much. I'm not that concerned...
Chuck 9:08:35 PM Kerry calls Bush on his "I don't think about Osama much" line. Uses it against him Q: We are talking about protecting ourselves from the unexpected, but the flu season is suddenly upon us. Flu kills thousands of people every year.
Suddenly we find ourselves with a severe shortage of flu vaccine. How did that happen? Chuck 9:08:47 PM here comes the flu vaccine questions Brian 9:09:01 PM Oh, here we go. BUSH: ...Bob, we relied upon a company out of England to provide about half of the flu vaccines for the United States citizen, and it turned out that the vaccine they were producing was contaminated. And so we took the right action and didn't allow contaminated medicine into our country. We're working with Canada to hopefully -- that they'll produce a -- help us realize the vaccine necessary to make sure our citizens have got flu vaccinations during this upcoming season...
Brian 9:09:08 PM Foreign drugs *bad* Brian 9:09:36 PM Strangely, Canada good. Brian 9:09:47 PM Kind of a flip-flop there. Chuck 9:09:48 PM He's reaching out to the swing voters there Chuck 9:10:02 PM No indication on whether or not he'll follow through on that if elected Chuck 9:10:05 PM This is always true BUSH: ...We have a problem with litigation in the United States of America. Vaccine manufacturers are worried about getting sued, and therefore they have backed off from providing this kind of vaccine...
Chuck 9:10:16 PM Pulling in the litigation caps Chuck 9:10:20 PM Which is ridiculous Chuck 9:10:27 PM Has nothing to do with flu vaccine Brian 9:10:47 PM Hope Kerry mentions that England had plenty of warning about this but we somehow missed out. Brian 9:11:06 PM Kerry's answer is wandering to health care. Chuck 9:11:20 PM Bush trying not to smirk. KERRY: ...Five million Americans have lost their health insurance in this country. You've got about a million right here in Arizona, just shy, 950,000, who have no health insurance at all. 82,000 Arizonians lost their health insurance under President Bush's watch. 223,000 kids in Arizona have no health insurance at all...
Brian 9:11:22 PM A bit of pandering to the elderly in AZ. Chuck 9:11:34 PM Yes, Kerry has appealed to the locals in each debate Chuck 9:11:40 PM It's good strategy Brian 9:11:49 PM But he isn't answering the question. Chuck 9:11:58 PM This is true Chuck 9:12:00 PM He isn't Chuck 9:12:17 PM Kerry is focussing on Health Care but not saying why we don't have flu vaccine. Brian 9:12:23 PM Every time he says "I have a plan" or "this President", take a drink. BUSH: ...He just said he wants everybody to be able to buy in to the same plan that senators and congressmen get. That costs the government $7,700 per family. If every family in America signed up, like the senator suggested, if would cost us $5 trillion over 10 years.
It's an empty promise. It's called bait and switch. KERRY: ...It's really interesting, because the president used that very plan as a reason for seniors to accept his prescription drug plan. He said, if it's good enough for the congressmen and senators to have choice, seniors ought to have choice...
Chuck 9:13:07 PM Ooooh Chuck 9:13:08 PM Nice Brian 9:13:13 PM Got hit there. Chuck 9:13:13 PM Nice smack back at Bush Chuck 9:13:33 PM What is Bush doing with his mouth? Chuck 9:13:50 PM It's sort of part open and his tongue is doing something... weird Brian 9:13:51 PM Bush looks like Ruprecht wetting himself in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. Chuck 9:14:05 PM He's trying HARD not to make the same mistakes from the other debates Brian 9:14:16 PM Hopefully he can make all new ones. Q: Senator Kerry, a new question ... you pledged during the last debate that you would not raise taxes on those making less than $200,000 a year ... how can you or any president, whoever is elected next time, keep that pledge without running this country deeper into debt and passing on more of the bills that we're running up to our children?
Brian 9:14:38 PM Kerry is staying on message but not answering questions. KERRY: ...we start -- we don't do it exclusively -- but we start by rolling back George Bush's unaffordable tax cut for the wealthiest people, people earning more than $200,000 a year, and we pass, hopefully, the McCain-Kerry Commission which identified some $60 billion that we can get.
We shut the loophole which has American workers actually subsidizing the loss of their own job. They just passed an expansion of that loophole in the last few days: $43 billion of giveaways, including favors to the oil and gas industry and the people importing ceiling fans from China... Chuck 9:15:09 PM He's starting to cover the answer now. Brian 9:15:13 PM Yup. Brian 9:15:23 PM Good invocation of McCain in AZ Chuck 9:15:41 PM He's hitting Bush on the pork in the latest spending bill Brian 9:15:48 PM Good. BUSH: ...He been a senator for 20 years. He voted to increase taxes 98 times. When they tried to reduce taxes, he voted against that 127 times. He talks about being a fiscal conservative, or fiscally sound, but he voted over -- he voted 277 times to waive the budget caps, which would have cost the taxpayers $4.2 trillion...
Brian 9:16:08 PM Here goes the raising taxes bit again. Brian 9:16:23 PM Kerry better smack him on the distortions. Chuck 9:16:25 PM Bush coming back against Kerry's record. Again with the 98 votes to raise taxes. This is specious... FactCheck covers this Brian 9:16:32 PM Yup. Brian 9:17:35 PM Bit of spittle in the right corner of his mouth. Chuck 9:17:39 PM Kerry seems unfazed Brian 9:17:51 PM I think he wanted a shot to rebut, though. Chuck 9:17:55 PM Yeah Brian 9:18:08 PM OK Jobs of the 21st century. Brian 9:18:10 PM century. Brian 9:18:15 PM What are those? Chuck 9:18:24 PM Yeah he does have a glob of spit on the corner of his mouth Chuck 9:18:28 PM yech BUSH: ...We've expanded trade adjustment assistance. We want to help pay for you to gain the skills necessary to fill the jobs of the 21st century...
...education is how to help the person who's lost a job. Education is how to make sure we've got a workforce that's productive and competitive... Brian 9:18:41 PM And what is the likelihood that a 50-something factory worker can train for one of them. Brian 9:18:57 PM Ah. No child left behind. Chuck 9:19:04 PM Bush says education is the solution to the job issue Chuck 9:19:21 PM Kerry will no doubt raise unfunded no child left behind mandate. Brian 9:19:23 PM Bush says he needs four more years "to continue to raise standards" Brian 9:19:30 PM Undoubtedly. Chuck 9:19:40 PM trade-adjustment money is what Bush says he offers KERRY: ...Being lectured by the president on fiscal responsibility is a little bit like Tony Soprano talking to me about law and order in this country...
Brian 9:20:04 PM Good Sopranos jab. Chuck 9:20:30 PM Good hit on fiscal responsibility. Brian 9:20:40 PM Costs are up. Jobs are down. Good point. Chuck 9:21:11 PM Bush wanted to rebut there. Brian 9:21:12 PM Still? Brian 9:21:23 PM Yeah, well, Kerry wanted to rebut the last one. Brian 9:21:33 PM Guess that makes the moderation fair. Brian 9:22:09 PM Q: Is administration responsible for job losses. KERRY: ...I don't blame [the administration] entirely for it. I blame the president for the things the president could do that has an impact on it.
Outsourcing is going to happen. I've acknowledged that in union halls across the country. I've had shop stewards stand up and say, Will you promise me you're going to stop all this outsourcing? And I've looked them in the eye and I've said, No, I can't do that.
What I can promise you is that I will make the playing field as fair as possible... Chuck 9:22:01 PM Kerry taking an earnest line here Chuck 9:22:06 PM I can't stop all outsourcing Chuck 9:22:16 PM But I can make the playing field as level as possible Brian 9:22:59 PM Talking about incentives for job creation at home. Chuck 9:23:01 PM Kerry's answer: no they aren't ENTIRELY responsible, but they do little to help people who've lost their jobs, and I will. Brian 9:23:31 PM Bush's smirking and giggling looks to be a strategy. Brian 9:24:01 PM He's also reacting as though Kerry is ridiculous in everything he says. BUSH: ...You know, he talks to the workers. Let me talk to the workers.
You've got more money in your pocket as a result of the tax relief we passed and he opposed.
If you have a child, you got a $1,000 child credit. That's money in your pocket... Chuck 9:24:20 PM Bush citing the tax cuts as help to the workers who lost their jobs. Brian 9:24:20 PM Talking taxes. Not even related to job losses. Brian 9:24:29 PM Ah. Is that the tie in? Chuck 9:24:32 PM yes Chuck 9:24:52 PM Back to the 98 times Brian 9:24:53 PM "Not tell citizens how to live their lives" Brian 9:25:11 PM Does that include gay marriage and abortion? KERRY: ...Bob, anybody can play with these votes. Everybody knows that.
I have supported or voted for tax cuts over 600 times. I broke with my party in order to balance the budget, and Ronald Reagan signed into law the tax cut that we voted for. I voted for IRA tax cuts. I voted for small-business tax cuts... Brian 9:25:41 PM Kerry isn't going far enough on the vote thing. Chuck 9:25:59 PM Bush sticking to the vote thing, and tying in liberal thing Brian 9:26:10 PM I so want to smack him. Brian 9:26:20 PM Ooooh. Gay marriage question. Chuck 9:26:24 PM Gay marriage... do you believe homosexuality is a choice? Chuck 9:26:40 PM GB: don't know. But people should be treated with tolerance and dignity. Brian 9:27:06 PM Sanctity of marriage. Protect it as an institution. Brian 9:27:15 PM Activist judges. Chuck 9:27:17 PM constitutional amendment, activist judges KERRY: We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as.
I think if you talk to anybody, it's not choice. I've met people who struggled with this for years, people who were in a marriage because they were living a sort of convention, and they struggled with it... Brian 9:28:21 PM Bringing in Cheney's daughter as gay. Chuck 9:28:35 PM Kerry saying -- it is NOT a choice. Brian 9:28:41 PM Bush appealed to his base. Kerry is appealing to his. Brian 9:29:13 PM Kerry says marriage is between man and woman. Chuck 9:29:58 PM Catholic archbishops say it is a sin to vote for Kerry, Kerry's reaction. Brian 9:30:15 PM Respects views, but disagrees with them. Brian 9:30:26 PM Can't legislate his religion. Chuck 9:30:49 PM Very good response. Brian 9:30:53 PM Yes. Brian 9:31:13 PM Oooooh. Good Bush quote. Brian 9:31:32 PM Not a Catholic President, but a President who happens to be Catholic." Chuck 9:31:42 PM Invoking Kennedy Chuck 9:31:49 PM Respecting the rights of others. Brian 9:31:51 PM Bush can't hit back on it either. Brian 9:32:05 PM "Culture of life" Chuck 9:32:29 PM He's going to call for abortion reduction. Brian 9:32:30 PM Reduce abortions. Chuck 9:32:39 PM My opponent voted against partial birth abortion Chuck 9:32:47 PM saw that coming Brian 9:32:50 PM He is going to ding Kerry for voting against partial birth abortions. Brian 9:32:52 PM Yup. Brian 9:33:37 PM Should have allowed a rebuttal for the factual distortion. Chuck 9:33:40 PM new question to Bush, Health Insurance is out of control? Chuck 9:33:46 PM Bush is about to blame lawyers Brian 9:33:54 PM Who is responsible. BUSH: ...I'm a strong believer in what they call health savings accounts. These are accounts that allow somebody to buy a low-premium, high-deductible catastrophic plan and couple it with tax-free savings. Businesses can contribute, employees can contribute on a contractual basis. But this is a way to make sure people are actually involved with the decision-making process on health care.
Secondly, I do believe the lawsuits -- I don't believe, I know -- that the lawsuits are causing health care costs to rise in America. That's why I'm such a strong believer in medical liability reform... Chuck 9:34:30 PM Promoting health savings account, the "ownership society" Chuck 9:34:39 PM Here come the lawsuits Brian 9:34:42 PM Yup. Chuck 9:34:44 PM I knew that was coming Brian 9:34:46 PM Saw that coming. Chuck 9:35:02 PM Always thinking of the lawsuits and never the victims Chuck 9:35:06 PM Big business stooge Brian 9:35:09 PM Yup. Chuck 9:35:29 PM Health care is technologically behind Brian 9:35:44 PM And how do we fix this? Brian 9:35:56 PM So, is he in favor of generic drugs coming to market. Brian 9:36:08 PM That's anti-pharmaceutical corps. Chuck 9:36:12 PM Kerry --> it's Bush's fault. Brian 9:36:20 PM Canada issue. Chuck 9:36:24 PM Bush against medications from Canada Chuck 9:36:43 PM Bush against bulk purchasing of medications via Medicare. Brian 9:36:44 PM Bulk purchasing issue as well. Chuck 9:37:12 PM Bush gave a $139 B of your money to drug companies Brian 9:37:38 PM Why does he get to choose a rebuttal? Chuck 9:37:53 PM Bob gets to choose Chuck 9:38:06 PM Kerry defends his record. Brian 9:38:09 PM Right, but Bush interjected over him and he acquiesced. Chuck 9:38:16 PM Bush trying not to smirk Chuck 9:38:37 PM I gotta hand it to Kerry, he is VERY cool and collected. Brian 9:38:49 PM Right, but maybe too cool. Chuck 9:39:00 PM Q Kerry: how are you going to pay for all these health care promises. Brian 9:39:16 PM I can see Bush's smirking and giggling and "folksiness" resonating very well with undecided voters. Brian 9:39:22 PM We hate him, so it grates Brian 9:39:52 PM But he is projecting an aura of knowledgeability even in the face of his ignorance. KERRY: ...Here's what I do: We take over Medicaid children from the states so that every child in America is covered. And in exchange, if the states want to -- they're not forced to, they can choose to -- they cover individuals up to 300 percent of poverty. It's their choice.
I think they'll choose it, because it's a net plus of $5 billion to them...
...In addition to that, we're going to allow people 55 to 64 to buy into Medicare early. And most importantly, we give small business a 50 percent tax credit so that after we lower the costs of health care, they also get, whether they're self-employed or a small business, a lower cost to be able to cover their employees. Now, what happens is when you begin to get people covered like that -- for instance in diabetes, if you diagnose diabetes early, you could save $50 billion in the health care system of America by avoiding surgery and dialysis. It works. And I'm going to offer it to America. Chuck 9:40:18 PM Kerry giving a lot of details here. Will this confuse voters? Brian 9:40:26 PM I think so. Brian 9:40:48 PM Bush is going for simple and then making it appear as if Kerry is out of his mind. Chuck 9:41:11 PM Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Brian 9:41:17 PM What was that? Chuck 9:41:32 PM Bush calls into question major news organizations analysis of his statements on Kerry's plan Brian 9:41:32 PM He started to make a dig and then said "never mind" Chuck 9:41:48 PM Yeah, that was deliberate Brian 9:42:02 PM Right, but it didn't seem intelligible. BUSH: ...I think government-run health will lead to poor-quality health, will lead to rationing, will lead to less choice.
Once a health-care program ends up in a line item in the federal government budget, it leads to more controls.
And just look at other countries that have tried to have federally controlled health care. They have poor-quality health care... Chuck 9:42:31 PM Here comes the fear line vis-a-vis government health care. KERRY: The president just said that government-run health care results in poor quality.
Now, maybe that explains why he hasn't fully funded the VA, and the VA hospital is having trouble, and veterans are complaining. Maybe that explains why Medicare patients are complaining about being pushed off of Medicare. He doesn't adequately fund it... Chuck 9:42:47 PM LOL! Brian 9:43:03 PM Good response. Chuck 9:43:11 PM Kerry THIS must be why Bush won't fund government health programs. Because the quality will go down! Brian 9:43:34 PM Bush - we are meeting commitments. Brian 9:43:43 PM Veterans health care is very good Chuck 9:44:06 PM Q Bush : social security -- savings accounts will cost 1$ trillion, what happens? how? Brian 9:44:41 PM Seniors today will get their checks. Brian 9:44:50 PM People of the future will not. Brian 9:44:56 PM Unless we do something. Chuck 9:44:56 PM Basically Chuck 9:45:00 PM yeas Chuck 9:45:24 PM He hasn't answered the question Chuck 9:45:31 PM WHERE IS THE ONE TRILLION COMING FROM? Brian 9:45:35 PM Yup. Brian 9:45:52 PM Well, it's going to come from "coming together" Brian 9:46:11 PM Kerry - Brian 9:46:21 PM Bush plan is an invitation to disaster. Brian 9:46:40 PM Benefits would have to cut benefits by 25 to 40 percent Chuck 9:46:52 PM Kerry invokes bipartisan Congressional Budet Office assessment of the Social Security savings accounts plan Brian 9:47:03 PM Kerry points out that Bush didn't answer the question Chuck 9:47:05 PM Kerry President is not saying where is the money coming from?? Q: ...Senator Kerry, you have just said you will not cut benefits.
Alan Greenspan, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, says there's no way that Social Security can pay retirees what we have promised them unless we recalibrate.
What he's suggesting, we're going to cut benefits or we're going to have to raise the retirement age. We may have to take some other reform. But if you've just said, you've promised no changes, does that mean you're just going to leave this as a problem, another problem for our children to solve? Chuck 9:47:55 PM Q KERRY: Greenspan said Social Security cant pay , cut benefits, raise retirement age. How can you promise no changes? Chuck 9:48:26 PM Kerry says that was what the surplus was supposed to be for. Brian 9:48:29 PM Uh-oh. I think he could get dinged on that. Brian 9:48:55 PM He is now saying that the surplus went to funding the tax cuts. Chuck 9:49:11 PM Yes that and the war Brian 9:49:12 PM Now Kerry is not answering the question. Chuck 9:49:39 PM He's bringing up jobs again. Brian 9:49:47 PM But he also said rolling back the tax cut is how he is going to pay for the new programs Brian 9:49:52 PM Double dip. Chuck 9:50:04 PM Unless he thinks there's enough to pay for it all. Brian 9:50:22 PM Bush is not answering either. Chuck 9:50:31 PM Bush: Kerry giving more of the same. He's voted to tax Social Security Bush defending tax cuts. Brian 9:50:37 PM Bush claims that most of the tax cut went to the middle class. Brian 9:50:39 PM Not true. Chuck 9:50:44 PM Right Brian 9:50:44 PM Calls tax system more fair. Chuck 9:50:50 PM FactCheck .org Brian 9:51:22 PM 1.9 mil jobs over 13 months. Chuck 9:51:32 PM Kerry wanted to rebut Brian 9:51:52 PM Please ding him on the fact that the new jobs are not even keeping pace with the people entering the work force. Chuck 9:51:56 PM Q BUSH: immigration. 8000 people cross borders every day illegally. How do you see this, what do we do about it? Brian 9:52:06 PM Increase border patrol. Chuck 9:52:11 PM new equipment Chuck 9:52:15 PM unmanned vehicles Chuck 9:52:18 PM continue to do so BUSH: ...And so in order to take pressure off the borders, in order to make the borders more secure, I believe there ought to be a temporary worker card that allows a willing worker and a willing employer to mate up, so long as there's not an American willing to do that job, to join up in order to be able to fulfill the employers' needs. ...
Brian 9:52:55 PM Oh boy. Here comes the temp worker card. Chuck 9:53:08 PM not familiar with this issue Brian 9:53:20 PM Let's create a subjugated working class. Serfs essentially. Brian 9:53:48 PM Let immigrants come in and do the lowest wage jobs. Chuck 9:54:29 PM tax cuts disappeared into the rising costs of everything else. Brian 9:54:34 PM Yup. Brian 9:54:51 PM Middle class tax burden up. Wealthy down. Brian 9:55:05 PM Cant be done. Brian 9:55:23 PM Securing the border, that is. Chuck 9:55:32 PM Earned legalization program. Brian 9:55:56 PM More discrediting of Kerry. Chuck 9:56:33 PM Kerry sticking by his claim borders not secure Brian 9:56:40 PM Kerry's response - No. Bush is wrong. Chuck 9:56:48 PM Q Kerry: gap growing between rich and poor Brian 9:56:56 PM Raise min wage? Chuck 9:56:56 PM raise minimum wage? Brian 9:57:07 PM Kerry says yes. Chuck 9:57:10 PM Kerry: YES. Republicans won't let us vote on it. Brian 9:57:16 PM Republican leadership is blocking it. Brian 9:57:31 PM Raise it to $7 per hour over time. Chuck 9:57:46 PM Back to the tax cuts Brian 9:57:49 PM Yup. KERRY: ...If we raise the minimum wage, which I will do over several years to $7 an hour, 9.2 million women who are trying to raise their families would earn another $3,800 a year.
The president has denied 9.2 million women $3,800 a year, but he doesn't hesitate to fight for $136,000 to a millionaire.
One percent of America got $89 billion last year in a tax cut, but people working hard, playing by the rules, trying to take care of their kids, family values, that we're supposed to value so much in America -- I'm tired of politicians who talk about family values and don't value families... Chuck 9:57:59 PM Nice one there Brian 9:58:04 PM Bit of a jab there. Chuck 9:58:12 PM Tired of politicians who talk family values but don't value families. Brian 9:58:19 PM He's pandering for the women vote though. Chuck 9:59:04 PM Bush brings it back to education. Chuck 9:59:14 PM Go out and get educated and get a better job, dumbass. Brian 9:59:17 PM Ah. The key to minimum wage is to work on education. Chuck 9:59:21 PM Right Brian 9:59:40 PM Cannot solve a problem unless you diagnose the problem. Chuck 9:59:55 PM Don't raise minimum wage. Educate the people. Brian 10:00:12 PM That's right. Keep the wages low for those guest workers. Chuck 10:00:23 PM Strong to tie education to jobs Chuck 10:00:48 PM Q BUSH: do you want to overturn roe v wade? Chuck 10:01:04 PM GB: no litmus test for judges. Period. Chuck 10:01:38 PM JK: Right of choice is constitutional. President wants to undo it. Chuck 10:01:47 PM Long way to go in terms of fairness. Chuck 10:01:57 PM Appealing to minorities. Chuck 10:02:11 PM JK: No Child left Behind UNDERFUNDED Brian 10:02:16 PM right Chuck 10:02:17 PM Tie it to people on the ground in AZ BUSH: ...only a liberal senator from Massachusetts would say that a 49 percent increase in funding for education was not enough...
Brian 10:03:02 PM More with the liberal labels from W Chuck 10:03:12 PM Bush: he is misleading you. Lots of money going in. Tossing liberal label around KERRY: You don't measure it by a percentage increase. Mr. President, you measure it by whether you're getting the job done.
Five hundred thousand kids lost after-school programs because of your budget.
Now, that's not in my gut. That's not in my value system, and certainly not so that the wealthiest people in America can walk away with another tax cut.
$89 billion last year to the top 1 percent of Americans, but kids lost their after-school programs. You be the judge. Chuck 10:03:31 PM JK: percentage increase has nothing to do with it, ARE YOU GETTING THE JOB DONE? Chuck 10:03:57 PM Inadequate funding to No Child Left Behind but big cut to the wealthy. You judge. Brian 10:04:16 PM Any relief to the guard people and stop loss? Chuck 10:04:18 PM Q KERRY: Is there a relief that can be offered to soldiers in field (backdoor draft)? Chuck 10:04:36 PM JK: repeated callups & stopless indication of the bad judgment of GB Chuck 10:04:45 PM JK: we are overextended Brian 10:05:07 PM Kerry wants to add troops to active duty, Chuck 10:05:08 PM JK: 90% of our military wrapped up in Iraq, add two active duty divisions, double special forces Brian 10:05:19 PM Not saying how we will get people to enlist. Chuck 10:05:29 PM Bring national guard home, use them HERE for homeland security Brian 10:05:39 PM Real alliances. Chuck 10:05:47 PM Run a foreign policy such that we are strongest when working in real alliances. Brian 10:05:49 PM Denigrate rebuttal upcoming? Chuck 10:05:59 PM Most likely Chuck 10:06:23 PM President didn't pull in allies, didn't choose war as a last resort, didn't plan adequately BUSH: The best way to take the pressure off our troops is to succeed in Iraq, is to train Iraqis so they can do the hard work of democracy, is to give them a chance to defend their country, which is precisely what we're doing. We'll have 125,000 troops trained by the end of this year...
Chuck 10:06:29 PM HEH Brian 10:06:32 PM Ah! Brian 10:06:43 PM Best way to succeed is to win. Chuck 10:06:49 PM Succeed in Iraq, and that will relieve our forces. Chuck 10:07:03 PM Essentially, it is up to the troops to relieve themselves. Brian 10:07:08 PM Morale is apparently high. Chuck 10:07:09 PM Somehow that sounds wrong. BUSH: ...In our first debate he proposed America pass a global test. In order to defend ourselves, we'd have to get international approval. That's one of the major differences we have about defending our country...
Chuck 10:07:20 PM here comes global test BS Chuck 10:07:31 PM misinterpreting it yet again. Brian 10:07:46 PM In spite of clarifications subsequent. Chuck 10:08:00 PM and here they come again KERRY: I have never suggested a test where we turn over our security to any nation. In fact, I've said the opposite: I will never turn the security of the United States over to any nation. No nation will ever have a veto over us.
But I think it makes sense, I think most Americans in their guts know, that we ought to pass a sort of truth standard. That's how you gain legitimacy with your own countrypeople, and that's how you gain legitimacy in the world... Chuck 10:08:23 PM We must pass a truth standard... don't we want legitimacy? Chuck 10:08:36 PM GB : Kerry voted against the gulf war. Brian 10:08:56 PM Kerry needs to attack Bush in more plain language. Chuck 10:09:09 PM Q BUSH: why wont you encourage congress to vote to for assault weapon ban Brian 10:09:16 PM Claims he did. Brian 10:09:18 PM Lie. Chuck 10:09:24 PM GB: I tried to, but I was told bill wouldn't move. Brian 10:09:33 PM Another lie. Brian 10:09:56 PM Crack down on crimes with guns. Chuck 10:10:13 PM Kerry identifies with hunters and gun owners Brian 10:10:14 PM I brought my gun to church with me., Brian 10:10:23 PM When I was an altar boy... Brian 10:10:27 PM :-) KERRY: ...If Tom DeLay or someone in the House said to me, "Sorry, we don't have the votes", I'd have said, "Then we're going to have a fight".
And I'd have taken it out to the country and I'd have had every law enforcement officer in the country visit those congressmen. We'd have won what Bill Clinton won. Chuck 10:11:11 PM Wow Chuck 10:11:14 PM Nice punch there Chuck 10:11:23 PM I would have fought Brian 10:11:31 PM Invoking Clinton. Brian 10:11:39 PM Need for affirmative action? Chuck 10:11:42 PM Q KERRY: do we still need affirmative action? Chuck 10:12:08 PM JK: no regrettably, not far enough along to get rid of affirmative act. Oh and BTW, it's Bush's fault. Chuck 10:12:15 PM He's certainly sticking to message Chuck 10:13:24 PM JK racism still a problem. We fought to reform Affirmative Action back in 90's Chuck 10:13:53 PM GB hasn't met with NAACP, black congressional caucus, hasn't met with civil rights folks. How can you reach out if you don't do that? Brian 10:14:14 PM I tell you, if I wasn't commenting on this, I'd have turned it off. Brian 10:14:29 PM Neither man is interesting. Chuck 10:14:38 PM GB: that's not true, I met with black congressional caucus at the white house. Quotas are bad, back to education. Affirmative Action is improving education for the poor. Brian 10:14:39 PM Again with education. Chuck 10:15:05 PM yes Chuck 10:15:09 PM ownership society Brian 10:15:43 PM Oooooh. Faith questions. Chuck 10:15:45 PM Q BUSH: how does faith play in your decisions? Brian 10:16:00 PM Faith is personal. Bull! Chuck 10:16:05 PM GB: I pray a lot. My faith is very personal. I pray for strength, wisdom, family, for the troops. Chuck 10:16:18 PM But people should worship as they want to or not. Chuck 10:16:30 PM Freedom of religion. Chuck 10:16:37 PM Pray and religion sustain me. Chuck 10:17:14 PM armies of compassion? Chuck 10:17:22 PM AH. Faith based initiatives. Chuck 10:17:38 PM Freedom on the march again. Brian 10:17:40 PM God wants people to be free. Brian 10:18:12 PM LOL Brian 10:18:21 PM Native American blessings. Chuck 10:18:32 PM JK: Love the lord, and love your neighbor Chuck 10:18:43 PM JK: We have a lot more loving of our neighbor to do Brian 10:18:51 PM Haves vs. have nots. Chuck 10:19:00 PM Unequal school system. One for people who have and one who have not. Chuck 10:19:22 PM Kerry clearer on respect to atheists. Brian 10:20:03 PM And clearer in showing how faith can work for the good of the country. Chuck 10:19:46 PM Q KERRY: our unity after 9/11 has melted away. Will you set a priority on bringing us back together? Chuck 10:20:26 PM JK --> President did a terrific job right after 9/11 did a great job uniting then Chuck 10:20:29 PM but not anymore Brian 10:21:09 PM Kerry tries to find the common ground. KERRY: ...And if Americans trust me with the presidency, I can pledge to you, we will have the most significant effort, openly -- not secret meetings in the White House with special interests, not ideologically driven efforts to push people aside -- but a genuine effort to try to restore America's hope and possibilities by bringing people together...
Chuck 10:21:29 PM JK: I have tried to find the common ground. Most significant effort (openly, not secret, not ideologically driven) Chuck 10:21:45 PM Campaign finance reform with John McCaine. Brian 10:21:45 PM Mentioned his friend McCain three times. Chuck 10:22:14 PM Yes Chuck 10:22:22 PM Bush, No Child Left Behind reached out to Democrats. Brian 10:22:22 PM interesting. Now Bush is invoking Ted Kennedy. Chuck 10:22:53 PM Yeah, 10 minutes ago it was the lib from MA, and now it's I wanted to work with Kennedy. Brian 10:23:24 PM Kerry should have gotten to rebut that one. Chuck 10:23:46 PM Last Question: what is most important thing u have learned from strong women in your life? Brian 10:23:40 PM Fluff question. Brian 10:23:45 PM What a waste to end the debate. BUSH: To listen to them. (LAUGHTER) To stand up straight and not scowl. (LAUGHTER)
...when I asked Laura to marry me, she said, "Fine, just so long as I never have to give a speech." I said, "OK, you've got a deal." Fortunately, she didn't hold me to that deal. And she's out campaigning along with our girls. And she speaks English a lot better than I do. I think people understand what she's saying.
But they see a compassionate, strong, great first lady in Laura Bush. I can't tell you how lucky I am. When I met her in the backyard at Joe and Jan O'Neill's in Midland, Texas, it was the classic backyard barbecue. O'Neill said, Come on over. I think you'll find somebody who might interest you. So I said all right. I walked over there. There was only four of us there. And not only did she interest me, I guess you would say it was love at first sight. Chuck 10:23:58 PM GB: stand up straight, don't scowl, listen to them Chuck 10:24:09 PM love my wife and daughters. Brian 10:24:24 PM So, he broke his word to his wife. Chuck 10:24:37 PM wife campaigns for me, she speaks English better than I do. Chuck 10:24:47 PM This makes him look humble. Brian 10:24:50 PM Met my wife at a barbecue. Brian 10:24:57 PM *Hurk!* Chuck 10:25:08 PM Recounting how he met his wife. KERRY: Well, I guess the president and you and I are three examples of lucky people who married up. (LAUGHTER) And some would say maybe me moreso than others. (LAUGHTER) But I can take it. (LAUGHTER)
...if I could just say a word about a woman that you didn't ask about, but my mom passed away a couple years ago, just before I was deciding to run. And she was in the hospital, and I went in to talk to her and tell her what I was thinking of doing.
And she looked at me from her hospital bed and she just looked at me and she said, "Remember: integrity, integrity, integrity." Those are the three words that she left me with.
And my daughters and my wife are people who just are filled with that sense of what's right, what's wrong.
They also kick me around. They keep me honest. They don't let me get away with anything. I can sometimes take myself too seriously. They surely don't let me do that.
And I'm blessed, as I think the president is blessed, as I said last time. I've watched him with the first lady, who I admire a great deal, and his daughters. He's a great father. And I think we're both very lucky. Chuck 10:25:25 PM JK joking about Theresa's wealth Brian 10:25:32 PM Kerry being surprisingly human Chuck 10:25:44 PM Well it is a personal question Brian 10:25:45 PM Also mentioned his Mom Chuck 10:26:35 PM closing compliment to bush' Chuck 10:26:37 PM interesting Chuck 10:26:44 PM Closing statements. Brian 10:26:47 PM Why does Kerry have to close first every time? Chuck 10:26:53 PM probably the deal Brian 10:27:02 PM He ought to get the last word once. Chuck 10:27:28 PM JK --> we are divided. We need to work together. We CAN do better. Chuck 10:27:46 PM JK --> I will not allow a country to have a veto over our security Chuck 10:27:53 PM JK is invoking EVERYTHING Chuck 10:28:01 PM veterans, Vietnam, fait Chuck 10:28:04 PM faith Brian 10:28:06 PM Major pandering response. Chuck 10:28:25 PM I think he looks almost noble. Now Bush's turn. Chuck 10:29:10 PM GB --> invoking optimism Chuck 10:29:50 PM armies of compassion again Brian 10:29:53 PM Yup. Brian 10:29:57 PM Firm resolve. Chuck 10:30:00 PM never waver Brian 10:30:02 PM Never waver. Chuck 10:30:03 PM interesting Brian 10:30:04 PM LOL Chuck 10:30:15 PM We haven't heard him mention mixed messages and wavering this time Brian 10:30:16 PM Spread freedom and liberty. Brian 10:30:19 PM Nope. Chuck 10:30:21 PM Public is tired of hearing it. Brian 10:30:26 PM Played that card out. Chuck 10:30:32 PM Interesting debate Brian 10:30:38 PM Boring debate. Brian 10:30:59 PM Kerry didn't counterpunch where he needed to Chuck 10:31:06 PM a mostly positive closing for both candidates... Brian 10:31:11 PM Yup. Chuck 10:31:13 PM less fireworks at the end Brian 10:31:47 PM Not sure why the timber company didn't come up again. Chuck 10:32:00 PM too obscure for the average viewer? Brian 10:32:18 PM But it would have been an opportunity to point out how Bush had lied. Chuck 10:33:10 PM Okay, I'm not watching the spin room. Shutting off TV. Brian 10:33:16 PM Righto. Chuck 10:33:24 PM Callin commentary usually pisses me off anyway. Brian 10:33:31 PM Yup. Chuck 10:33:32 PM So, first impression. Clear winner? Brian 10:33:36 PM No. Chuck 10:33:39 PM I agree Chuck 10:33:45 PM The debate was pretty even. Brian 10:33:51 PM This is the first one I really felt was a draw. Chuck 10:34:09 PM I felt that Bush did a much better job of controlling his emotions and not allowing himself to look like a moron. Brian 10:34:13 PM Yup. Chuck 10:34:27 PM it was unusual to see him look presidential, that can only help him Chuck 10:34:38 PM Kerry's performance was very smooth Brian 10:34:42 PM I think he went back to being more folksy. Brian 10:34:48 PM Bush did. Chuck 10:34:45 PM I didn't notice any flubs. Did you? Brian 10:34:50 PM Nope. Chuck 10:34:51 PM Right Chuck 10:34:57 PM At times he did Chuck 10:35:06 PM That personal question I think helped Kerry Brian 10:35:12 PM Yes. Chuck 10:35:13 PM It made him seem more personable. Brian 10:35:18 PM Absolutely. Chuck 10:36:42 PM However all the answers are in conflict (no surprise) and nothing new was said (no surprise there either). The candidates should have by now communicated their positions. Brian 10:36:52 PM Yup. Chuck 10:38:52 PM No clear winner, I agree. And the opinion of the wingnuts will be that Bush won because he didn't act like an ass. Brian 10:39:33 PM it's sad that we have such lowered expectations of our commander Chuck 10:39:37 PM Right
Thursday, October 14, 2004
Debate III - The final chapter
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